Marie Birtel is a certified psychological counsellor and specializes in uncovering patterns of dependency in (family) systems and relationships. Her focus is on helping people to recognize and free themselves from stressful relationship patterns in order to lead a free and self-determined life. As the author of the self-help story "Ich Liebe Dich, Wenn ...", she conveys in a profound and complex way how hidden narcissism can manifest itself in family systems and how to recognize it. The author has already performed on the FAIL IN LOVE NIGHTS stage in Hamburg. In this interview, she gives you another insight into how she came up with the idea for her book and how you can uncover patterns of dependency in your life.
What inspired you to write "I love you when ..."?
This book arose from a deep inner necessity. I had to speak my truth. I had kept it under the surface for too long - out of fear, out of loyalty, out of shame. But at some point it became clear: if I didn't start telling my story, it would eat me up from the inside. "I love you when ..." is my story - condensed, fictionalized, but true at its core. It is an attempt to make the invisible visible. And it is the beginning of a larger movement: With the campaign #IamEmma I want to give victims of narcissistic violence a voice. Because Emma is not just me - Emma is thousands of people. And too many of them are still silent.
To what extent does the character Emma reflect real experiences?
Emma is a mirror. She is my story, but not just mine. She stands for all the women (and men) who have been torn apart inside, who grew up in seemingly 'intact' families - but were in fact emotionally manipulated, used, ignored or shamed. Emma's pain is real. Her confusion. Her perseverance. Her search. I have experienced all of this myself - and so have many of my clients. Emma was born for us to collectively understand: When we start speaking the truth, healing begins.
What is a narcissist - and who is just an asshole?
Not every difficult person is a narcissist. But a narcissist can be recognized by the fact that he or she systematically manipulates, always abdicates responsibility, knows no empathy and destabilizes people emotionally - often under the guise of love, concern or weakness. An "asshole" can be loud, rude or selfish - but lacks the destructive strategy behind it. Narcissistic abuse is psychological warfare. And often invisible for years.
What distinguishes covert narcissism from overt narcissism?
Covert narcissists often appear sensitive, helpful or insecure on the outside - but on the inside they deliberately use guilt, shame and emotional dependency to exert control. Unlike overt narcissists, who appear loud and dominant, they are silent perpetrators. They do not destroy through violence - but through subtle devaluation, distortion and emotional confusion. This is precisely why hardly anyone recognizes them. And that is precisely why their abuse is so devastating. Especially when it takes place within their own family, where it is most difficult to imagine that their own mother or father are the perpetrators. A sane person simply cannot believe it. Even if the victims speak out and seek help, the perpetrators are often protected: "She's your mother. He's your father." Unfortunately, this doesn't really make a difference whether your parents or someone else is abusing you. On the contrary, the victims have been betrayed by people who should have protected them.
This type of trauma alone is already sufficiently perfidious. If the victims are then also denied their truth or accused of betraying their parents, exaggerating or even asked to justify their actions with their traumas or "difficult childhood", then it hits the nervous system twice as hard. This is exactly where a lot needs to happen socially. I know many people who had a difficult childhood. Not all of them become perpetrators.
What are the long-term effects of covert narcissistic abuse on those affected?
Many sufferers live for decades in an inner state of self-doubt, fear, shame and emotional detachment - without ever realizing it, Why they feel this way. They see themselves as the problem. They learn early on: "I have to function, otherwise I will be deprived, devalued, ignored." This remains - and it shapes everything: relationships, self-image, body image, career, ability to bond. Hidden narcissistic abuse makes you ill - mentally, physically and spiritually.
How can those affected recognize that they are trapped in such a dynamic?
When you constantly feel like you're wrong. When you apologize for everything. If you feel empty but don't know why. If you feel more confused after contact than before. When you start to doubt your own perception - even though your body has long been sounding the alarm. Then it's time to take a closer look.
What steps do you recommend to free yourself from toxic family systems?
The first step is radical honesty: with yourself. Write down your story. Acknowledge what was. And what wasn't. Find allies - people who really see you. Learn to set boundaries, even if it feels brutally wrong at first. And if you can: Get professional support. You don't have to go through this alone.
Thank you very much, Marie Birtel!
✨ If you recognize yourself in these lines:
Marie Birtel works 1:1 with people who want to break free from toxic structures and build a life that truly belongs to them. You can find out more on Marie's website: www.mariebirtel.com . And remember: #IamEmma - because your story counts. And you are not alone.